FOIL FAQs

common questions and additional details

 

Do you have an Armstrong adapter?
Not yet. I have an initial design however due to complex geometry it is not possible to machine using traditional methods, at least at a reasonable cost. I am exploring metal 3D printing, as well as investment casting. I have designed and manufactured many parts in my career, from aerospace at Boeing to consumer products with Apple. I will find the most efficient design and manufacturing process for this part, however my focus right now is delivering masts to my customers with the adapters I currently have available. Thank you so much for your patience and understanding, and feel free to read more about it here: https://projectcedrus.com/general/fall-check-in-armstrong-updates/
Which model is right for me?

The better question: do you need more stiffness or strength?

The Classic has been on the market for 3 years and is widely recognized as the stiffest mast available. Over 100 masts have been sold to kite foilers, surf, wing, SUP, prone, and windsurf foilers. As the industry has evolved and athletes have begun to push limits with new forms of foiling, loads on the mast and specifically at the board interface have increased. While there has not been a single structural failure of the Classic, we have had a couple instances of bent screws due to heavy loads from windsurfers and jumping wingers. The Clydesdale was recently introduced to increase strength of the board interface joint, with a marginal increase in stiffness as well. Strength is not the same as stiffness, and for a detailed explanation of this please see my blog entry. 

The Clydesdale was launched primarily at the windsurf market and hard-jumping wing foilers, while the Classic remains more than adequate for kite, surf, wing, prone, and SUP. For reasons discussed here, windsurf foiling and dynamic loads from jumping put larger forces and moments on the mount than even the heaviest riders under normal riding conditions. So if you’re are just looking for a stiffer mast, I recommend the Classic for 98% of my customers. If you need a stronger mast, The Clydesdale is more of an insurance policy for aggressive riders wanting complete assurance from their equipment.

How much does Project Cedrus cost?

The Classic mast only is $950 and The Clydesdale mast only is $1,050. Fuselage adapters and board mounts are $100/each. So the total price of a typical setup is $1,150USD. Want to make your own mounts or fuselages? Awesome! I am happy to sell mast only and provide any CAD or drawings needed so you can design your own parts.

Have you had any problems with adapters?

The short answer is No. Project Cedrus with an adapter is as strong or stronger than any OEM assembly. That being said, we are starting to see hardware failures at the mast/fuselage connection, and typically those using M6 hardware. This can be anything from a lose or bent bolt, to a complete tensile failure. This includes Takuma, Moses, MFC, and F-One. We’ve even seen failed Axis M8 hardware, due to massive loads on the aft bolt. Keep in mind, we are talking about 1-2% here… to be exact 4 of my 200+ customers. It is somewhat to be expected as the sport grows and riders continue to push bounderies. The good news: no adapter damage has ever affected the mast, and as the big brands improve their designs, it’s a tiny investment in a new adapter to make your Project Cedrus setup even stronger. To that end, it’s actually safer to ride a Project Cedrus, because if a certain wing or fuselage connection doesn’t work for you, with only $100 you’re on a completely new wingset. Now if you are a customer and you are having issues with your adapter, please let me know! Sometimes fuselage profiles change without me knowing, or screws aren’t long enough. Regardless, I promise to make it right for you.

Can you ship international?

I have shipped masts all over the world, including Switzerland, The Netherlands, Malaysia, and Spain to name a few. I have pretty good rates with FedEx, but expect ~$200 to ship a mast via FedEx + duties. I am happy to pass my good rates on to you, but cannot be responsible for excess duty charges or handling complex logistics.

I don't see an adapter for my fuselage, will you make it?

Yes, I can design an adapter for your favorite fuselage however only after a deposit is paid. There is no additional cost for custom adapters, provided it is compatible with Project Cedrus and a popular/commercially available fuselage.

Will you make an adapter for my [insert brand here] mast?

No. Please do not email me asking for adapters to other mast ecosystems. I do not charge for my time when designing adapters, because they benefit the mast and my customers. I basically sell adapters at cost, and cannot afford to do the same for adapters that are not compatible with Project Cedrus.

Why a mast only?

Wings get all the attention, but the mast is the heaviest and most expensive component of your foil. While wing preferences among riders vary from fast and twitchy to slow and stable, everyone appreciates a stiff mast and lightweight setup. Project Cedrus was designed to cut the weight of a typical aluminum foil by up to 40%, without having to invest in an entire new setup. It was designed to exceed the strength and stiffness of any carbon mast on the market, at comparable or lesser weight. It’s compatible with any board, and many wingsets as your skill and preferences evolve. It’s designed to be the one piece of kite gear you don’t feel obliged to upgrade every season, custom made for you, in the length you want, in the Pacific Northwest.

How do you make a mast that's stiffer, stronger, and lighter? That seems impossible.

It’s basic solid mechanics. A foil mast is a beam, subject to bending and torsion loads. The most effective way to increase stiffness is to grow the moment of inertia, and more specifically the beam height. In a foil, this means a thicker section, which comes at the expense of drag. At 19mm, Project Cedrus is a little thicker than most masts, but a similar profile to the Axis mast, for example. Mast drag is only one component of total foil drag, and the further out of the water you extend the smaller the impact. Working with an America’s Cup foil designer, I optimized the section shape Project Cedrus for stiffness, weight, drag, and separation angle.

How many have you sold?

Design for first prototype began in 2016, shortly after I left Apple. Within 6 months, I was riding the first prototype in the SF Bay Area. Shortly thereafter, another batch of 3 masts was made and ridden by testers in Santa Cruz and the Gorge. Incorporating their feedback and additional lessons learned after a year of testing, the design was refined and a pre-production batch of 20 masts made sold as complete foils with Stringy Wings to launch customers and delivered late summer 2018. With extremely positive feedback, I’m excited to finally offer Project Cedrus to the foil community and am currently in serial production at over 100 units delivered to happy customers.

Who is Project Cedrus designed for?

Project Cedrus was designed for those who want the freedom to ride any board with whatever wingset they wish. It’s for those who are tired of being forced to buy an entirely new setup just because they want to try a different pair of wings. It’s for riders who want the stiffest, most responsive feel possible but have buckled aluminum masts or cracked foam-cored carbon masts. It’s for kiters who also like to SUP foil, for foil surfers who want a specific length. The new sport of wingsurfing is also proving to be a perfect match for the stiffness of Project Cedrus. It’s for the unfortunate riders who have a long walk to the beach, or travel a lot for wind, who will most appreciate the dramatic weight savings. The mast was not optimized for riders who want to race or set speed records. Designing for top end speed would actually come at the expense of low speed carving characteristics, as thinner sections can actually have higher lift induced drag at low speeds. Think of Project Cedrus as your fat waisted rockered powder skis, as opposed to GS race skis. It was designed to be playful and fun, a perfect balance of performance.

What is the warranty & satisfaction policy?

Project Cedrus is backed by a 2 year structural warranty on any component. As an entirely self-funded small business, Adherend Innovations, LLC simply cannot afford to take returns for any other reason. Demos are encouraged, and we will do our best to facilitate them. Each mast is made to order, and uniquely serialized. Cosmetic blemishes may exist, but performance is guaranteed. The marine environment is incredibly harsh, and how the foil is cared for will ultimately govern the service life. That being said, any clear manufacturing defect causing failure under reasonable load conditions will be recognized as such and I will do my best to facilitate unsatisfied customers at any point of their ownership.

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